I have a question about the current version.

Noticing an emphasis on 3-D flying and activity after the contest.

I understand the intent of the guideline but not the application, I am a CD and would like some better understanding.

My question.

1. The guidelines now state that from the start to the end of the contest is the event. This includes Saturday night (on a Sat/Sun contest). It states that "drunkeness" is not allowed. Really? You are telling me that if I finish the contest at 3-4pm and go home (assuming I live close enough) or to my hotel/restaurant that if I have any drunkeness I would DQ myself from the contest? As long as the AMA regulations are followed of bottle to throttle (to ensure safe operation of the airplane) How can IMAC tell me that I cannot have drunkeness at my own place of residence for the contest? Now I understand if this was meant as a field rule where the field outlawed drinking but it is not written that way, infact it reads the opposite where it is said 2 times that the contest is considered the whole event (even after hours).

The rule needs to be rewritten (and quickly).

1. You cannot tell people they cannot drink in their own home/hotel/restuarant on a contest weekend. As long as they meet the AMA guidance of safe operation and do not break any field rules that should be all that is required.

2. Define Drunkeness. How is a CD to know if someone is at that level. .08, 2 drinks, 5 drinks etc. How does one prove this? Is IMAC going to support the CD legally when they kick someone out of contest this and the person becomes beligerant or sues the CD (we all know stupider things have gone to court) for the cost of travel/food/entry fee etc.

3. How is this enforced? Contestant A goes to his hotel and prepares for the contest not drinking. Contestant B has some grudge and tells the CD that A was drunk that night. According to the guidelines A must now be DQ'd with no proof other than hersay.



I think we all understand the intent of the rule (similar to the Pilot/Dash) to keep bad behavior off the field property. Its the application and how the document is worded that needs to be changed.

This of course assumes the person(s) are of legal age to consume alcohol.

That sure would put a crimp in Saturday nights, Mexican food and margarita's, wouldn't it?

Sweetpea,

The wording is fine like it is. Look at the sentence before the examples are given.

"Examples of unacceptable behavior for the event site are"

I don't care what you once you go home or the hotel.

Rick

Posted By Rick Byrd on 09 Feb 2009 0:51
Sweetpea,

The wording is fine like it is. Look at the sentence before the examples are given.

"Examples of unacceptable behavior for the event site are"

I don't care what you once you go home or the hotel.

Rick

Is this a "Formal" or "Informal" reply?

Kp

Where can i find a copy of the "contest guidlines V3"

see you soon,
John

Posted By Kent Porter on 09 Feb 2009 7:52

Posted By Rick Byrd on 09 Feb 2009 0:51
Sweetpea,

The wording is fine like it is. Look at the sentence before the examples are given.

"Examples of unacceptable behavior for the event site are"

I don't care what you once you go home or the hotel.

Rick

Is this a "Formal" or "Informal" reply?

Kp

It's informal.

Kent I know your are going to start quoting so lets see it from the book.

Rick

Posted By john schroder on 09 Feb 2009 9:15

Where can i find a copy of the "contest guidlines V3"

see you soon,
John

Hey John ,

Go to the home page look under Quick links on the right hand side under Rules.

Rick

We have only one choice and that is to "quote" our rules and guidelines. Having opinions is fine, however we must be very careful how we dictate to our fellow pilots and the spectators. So here is the Quote from our AMA Safety Code.

"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol."

From our Contest Standards Guide..

E. IMAC Code of Conduct.

- Drunkenness at any time during the span of the event.

Drunkenness...
1. intoxicated; drunk.
Intoxicated...
1. to affect temporarily with diminished physical and mental control by means of alcoholic liquor, a drug, or another
substance, esp. to excite or stupefy with liquor.
Drunk...
1. being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated:

I see the point from both angles.

So will this be revised? It will be interesting to see....

Kp

Thanks Kent!!! Cut and dry there. I will pass this on to the BOD for review.

Rick

Thanks for looking into this. Like I said, I'm sure the intent was to focus on the actual event site, since a majority of them outlaw alcohol on premises.

The wording of the document is slightly off though from the quotes posted (which is where I got my info). Because you are correct where it says at the event site but then it says the span of the event (which span of the event was earlier defined as start to finish including the night to study unknowns).

Also, if we are flying at a field where alcohol is not banned and you are in your RV after hours is the rule the same thing since you would be on the event site?


I know in the NW this rule is causing some feathers to be ruffled and a common answer was "can't you go without booze for the few contests of the season and if not then AA is for you". Well I for one typically don't drink that much if at all during the year. I do tend to tie one on with my friends I don't see often at IMAC events. Now I don't go running around like an idiot (any more than sober), hand out booze to minors or fly any of my planes after a drink.

I just think this rule needs to be slightly clearer so that people don't jump off the deep end of both extremes.

Posted By John Murdoch on 08 Feb 2009 16:12
That sure would put a crimp in Saturday nights, Mexican food and margarita's, wouldn't it?

JM--sure am gonna miss those with you guys on Saturday Nights.

I know the answer!!! DON'T GET DRUNK!! Really people, I have attended many contest in the last several years and I don't recall a situation where this would be applied. Although it is there if someone got out of hand because of drunkenness. All it means is to behave and act respectfully. (be carefull of the apple sauce)
Kurtis

I wish people studied the Flying & Judging Guide so close!!!!!

Posted By Kurtis Waites on 09 Feb 2009 23:44
I wish people studied the Flying & Judging Guide so close!!!!!

AMEN!!!!

Posted By Kent Porter on 09 Feb 2009 10:22
We have only one choice and that is to "quote" our rules and guidelines. Having opinions is fine, however we must be very careful how we dictate to our fellow pilots and the spectators. So here is the Quote from our AMA Safety Code.

"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol."

From our Contest Standards Guide..

E. IMAC Code of Conduct.

- Drunkenness at any time during the span of the event.

Drunkenness...
1. intoxicated; drunk.
Intoxicated...
1. to affect temporarily with diminished physical and mental control by means of alcoholic liquor, a drug, or another
substance, esp. to excite or stupefy with liquor.
Drunk...
1. being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated:

I see the point from both angles.

So will this be revised? It will be interesting to see....

Kp

I sure hope no one intends to enforce these guidlines as written.

A lot of us, if not most, enjoy our social interaction after a day of flying and judging, either at the local eatery or at the field in our RV's.
In my opinion, to ban the consumption of alcohol after the flying is over, is a bad idea.
Does this rule mean we will no longer have drinks available at our AMA, IMAC, National Championship banquet? We always have had in the past.

see you soon,
John

I agree with John. Most of us enjoy a social drink after flying.
Camping, cooking, and a social drink is a great way to end a great day of flying.

NOW THIS IS JUST my thoughts on this subject and i'm not saying anything that should be taken as an official statement of anything!!!!! Now with that said I believe this rule has been put in place to help the CD if someone gets out of hand and needs to be told to leave, I don't think it was intended to keep us from having a social drink after we put our planes away and we are sitting around cooking and shooting the bull and having fun.

I belong to a field which allows alcohol. I also provided beer with dinner for our first IMAC event last year.

Whether you have 1 beer or 5 you are considered intoxicated in my mind. Personally I don't know too many people who fire up a $3000+ plane after drinking. However I do know many who enjoy a beer after a long hot day at the field.

I don't really feel IMAC should have the authority to tell me that we can't offer a cold beer with dinner (provided they are finished flying for the day) or if we go out that we can't have a beer.

Sure some may think "what you can't go to a contest without drinking?" and they are entitled to that thought, however I personally enjoy having some drinks with my flying buddys and sharing stories after a long hot day at the field.

As long as the AMA rules are followed I don't see what the problem is.

I agree with that, but like I said before this is just my thoughts about this and I'm not making any kind of official statement at all !

I hear ya Mark and can see that side of things.

However if someone is acting up at our field I would give them a refund and toss them out without thinking twice, rule or no rule hahha. That being said, the IMAC community is great I highly doubt that would happen.

If it is for that reason, then I believe it should be clearly spelt out to state that.

So here is the Quote from our AMA Safety Code.

"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol."


Kp

This issue is also a AMA rule. Kent Porter got this from the saftey code.

Rick

Rick that's fine and all. But that clearly says if I choose to have a couple beers at 7pm and don't have to fly until 9am the next morning I am not breaking any rules.

So really IMAC should change the rule to match as far as I am concerned. I discussed this tonight with someone who hadn't heard of this yet and his response was "Who is IMAC to tell me I cant have a beer in my hotel at night?".

Quite frankly IMAC has no right to say what happens at night in a hotel, bar, dinner, or at a field that allows drinking period. I don't mean to be rude, this is just my opinion.

Posted By Jake Ruddy on 10 Feb 2009 18:54
Rick that's fine and all. But that clearly says if I choose to have a couple beers at 7pm and don't have to fly until 9am the next morning I am not breaking any rules.

So really IMAC should change the rule to match as far as I am concerned. I discussed this tonight with someone who hadn't heard of this yet and his response was "Who is IMAC to tell me I cant have a beer in my hotel at night?".

Quite frankly IMAC has no right to say what happens at night in a hotel, bar, dinner, or at a field that allows drinking period. I don't mean to be rude, this is just my opinion.

I understand and this will be brought up at the next BOD meeting.

Rick

Something tells me we are gonna see this being handed to the rules committe.

I do not drink (used to but after one brush with sever alcohol poisoning) but find it extremely funny watching the antics of those that do and get hammered, as long as they are a funny drunk.

Anyway, I have been to contests where a few people did a bunch of drinking then decided it was a good time to whip out the glow plane and fly it to destruction, and in one case a gas plane was flown as well and filtered through a tree, and 35% was hand launched by a single person overhead of others sitting around, and all of this done by normally respectful pilots when sober.

I've also been to contests that no drinking was allowed until the person doing the drinking could show his/her plane was broken down and not flyable, sorta like handing over the car keys

What I'm trying to say is once the flying is over and your plane is apart, go for it and have a blast, if you are going to a hotel, please wait until you get there to avoid driving while under the influence and by all means do not fly even after having a single drink.

The sanction covers this. AMA has a rule for this, and it's covered under the sanction. All IMAC events are sanctioned.

Yes Dan you are right and last night we fixed the problem in our BOD meeting so if you go and read the rules now you will see that we are using the rules that AMA already has in place.

So on the judges score sheet next to the Sound Score, Pilot & Dash yes/no, will there be a "pliot passed breathalizer" test? Couldn't resist guys...
Jim

Now that is funny.


Thanks to the BOD for quick responses. I will let the Regions I fly in IMAC know about the change. Again, I think we all understood the intent of the rule which was to keep alcohol and planes away from each other.

Well now, that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside - oh wait it's my rum and coke. Nah just kidding!

Happy it was addressed and dealt with. Thanks!