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Offline Silver Fox  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:10:58 AM(UTC)
Silver Fox

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With all this talk regarding "closer relationship" with IAC and wanting to "be like them"...... It may surprise us all of how differently they score their sequences.

FAI uses a system called "Fair Play System" and it is quite involved.
Below is a document from the FAI which goes in-depth into explaining how they arrive at their scores and how they rate the judges.
FairPlay System explained v2a.pdf (1,526kb) downloaded 17 time(s).

The below link goes to their scoring system which is a free download for those who are mathematically minded.
ACRO Scoring
To know the road ahead........ Ask those coming back.! (Chinese Proverb)
www.sewbusy.com
thanks 3 users thanked Silver Fox for this useful post.
Bill Adams on 1/13/2018(UTC), Chuck Edwards on 1/13/2018(UTC), Earle Andrews on 1/13/2018(UTC)
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 10:42:26 AM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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That is an interesting read Wayne.
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
Putting the Man in Unmanned.
It takes less time to do something right
than to explain why it was done wrong.
HWL.
Offline Earle Andrews  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:06:44 AM(UTC)
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Yes. it is an excellent description of the Fair Play system. Back in my involvement in IAC (1984-1992) they used the TBL system.

As far as I know Fair Play really wouldn't work well in IMAC, with only 2-3 judges (typically), which may be (usually are) different in each round. Also, bear in mind that the IAC judges training requirements are FAR more stringent than IMAC......resulting in judges that are more knowledgeable and better able to identify and score according to the criteria.
thanks 1 user thanked Earle Andrews for this useful post.
Gil R. Major on 1/13/2018(UTC)
Offline Silver Fox  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:29:07 PM(UTC)
Silver Fox

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Originally Posted by: Earle Andrews Go to Quoted Post
Yes. it is an excellent description of the Fair Play system. Back in my involvement in IAC (1984-1992) they used the TBL system.

As far as I know Fair Play really wouldn't work well in IMAC, with only 2-3 judges (typically), which may be (usually are) different in each round. Also, bear in mind that the IAC judges training requirements are FAR more stringent than IMAC......resulting in judges that are more knowledgeable and better able to identify and score according to the criteria.
That is my real point, Earle...... We are NOT as close as we may want to portray! IAC uses a box...IMAC doesn't. IAC requires Judges to take a test .... IMAC doesn't. IAC uses line judges to say when a pilot has gone out of the box....etc...etc...

Manrico in Italy has the right wording....Semi-Scale Aerobatics.

To know the road ahead........ Ask those coming back.! (Chinese Proverb)
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Offline Earle Andrews  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 3:09:51 PM(UTC)
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Yes Wayne.....when I said we (IMAC) are FAR from IAC judging qualifications, it is more than just a test. I'm basing this on my experience, which obviously goes back a ways.....I would assume IAC has not lowered their standards.

Not only does/did one have to pass a test, but also had to serve as an assistant to a judge for a minimum number of contests. Then that person would be qualified to sit at a local club contest. In order to judge at the Nats one had to again pass a test (could be written and/or verbal) AND have a minimum number of local club contests under their belt.

Also, local contests almost always had 5 judges, each with an assistant and scribe. Nat's had 7. There was also a chief judge who ran the judges line.

Of course their were boundary judges (2 for each category). If no boundary judges were available then no boundary penalties could be imposed. Don't recall that happening in my day.

I really don't foresee that degree of judging qualification ever happening in IMAC. After all we are playing with toy airplanes and are not inside them. There's a lot more on the line in full scale, which helps explain their seriousness.

Should we be as serious....YES! Every IMAC pilot that sits in a judges chair should strive to be as knowledgeable about the criteria and as fair to every contestant as they can. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be judging.

Edited by user Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:28:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 4 users thanked Earle Andrews for this useful post.
Silver Fox on 1/13/2018(UTC), Charles Lewis on 1/13/2018(UTC), Toby W. Silhavy on 1/14/2018(UTC), Bill Adams on 1/14/2018(UTC)
Offline Silver Fox  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 13, 2018 3:55:54 PM(UTC)
Silver Fox

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IMAC could learn a LOT from you! 👍
To know the road ahead........ Ask those coming back.! (Chinese Proverb)
www.sewbusy.com
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 6:43:54 AM(UTC)
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I guess that is why I would get so aggravated when we are told that we can't change this or that because we are emulating the IAC.. When you get right down to it we are pretty removed from what the IAC does! Might as well be flying Pattern with giant scale planes! LOL
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
Putting the Man in Unmanned.
It takes less time to do something right
than to explain why it was done wrong.
HWL.
thanks 2 users thanked Chuck Edwards for this useful post.
Charles Lewis on 1/14/2018(UTC), Bill Adams on 1/14/2018(UTC)
Offline Earle Andrews  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:25:52 AM(UTC)
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Chuck....when we get to a point that IMAC becomes flying giant scale aircraft that look like winged fish I will move on to something else!
thanks 1 user thanked Earle Andrews for this useful post.
Terry Pellerin on 1/14/2018(UTC)
Offline Silver Fox  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 1:39:41 PM(UTC)
Silver Fox

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For those interested in designing their own practice sequence and do not want to invest in the Aresti Software, you could take a look at this FREE Online software that some full scale pilots use to design their own Freestyle (IAC) sequences.

Be forewarned that you could make mistakes for your class if you don't know what to look for.
LOOK HERE

To know the road ahead........ Ask those coming back.! (Chinese Proverb)
www.sewbusy.com
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 2:24:50 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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I am with you Wayne! My vote is for Earl!
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
Putting the Man in Unmanned.
It takes less time to do something right
than to explain why it was done wrong.
HWL.
Offline Curtis Cozier  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:47:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Earle Andrews Go to Quoted Post


Should we be as serious....YES! Every IMAC pilot that sits in a judges chair should strive to be as knowledgeable about the criteria and as fair to every contestant as they can. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be judging.


I agree with this 100%
But our current leadership has shown that they feel consistent and fair judging is no longer a priority.
Allowing rules to be dropped and changed at contests at the whim of one or two pilots level of skill.
I spoke up about this and was forceably removed from the various committees that I was active on, including the judging instructor group....
Until the leadership agree's by actions and not thinly veiled posts on a forum that fair, consistent judging throughout IMAC is an important priority,.... this great organization will continue on a road reversing years of progress towards fair and consistent judging.
......
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