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Offline Bobby Folsom  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:05:00 PM(UTC)
Bobby Folsom

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Originally Posted by: Mike Karnes Go to Quoted Post
Most important tip is; don't forget to breathe

Or Blink!!
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Joe Layne  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:25:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rclad Go to Quoted Post


What I would like to understand is what skill the Unknown is testing vs. a typical Known sequence. What makes the two so different? Why is an Unknown, especially one with an easier combination of figures or maneuvers than a typical Known, so much harder to fly?

The closest analogy I can think of that describes the difference between flying a Known and Unknown - and hopefully someone with more experience can correct me - is the difference between a pianist who can play a piece well after much practice - developing muscle memory for each note - versus the pianist who can read music and play the same piece well on the first try.



Greg you will do very well this year. The unknown favors the best pilot over the pilot that has the most practice. It is not as difficult as the known but harder to fly well because you have never practiced it. I was worried when I flew the first one last year, and didn't fly it very well for that reason. By the end of the year I learned to relax and they were much better. Just make sure your call sheet has the info "NOTES" that is needed to get you through it, make sure your caller knows what you need to hear "or not hear" and relax. The stick plane practice with your caller is the key. Always remember, once a maneuver is complete (good or bad) move on to the next maneuver. Never think about what you just did wrong, fly the next maneuver.

Hear is my Unknown scores for the first and last contest I attended last year. Learn to RELAX
Unknown 1 5-22-17
1: (k=25) 4.0
2: (k=15) 0.0
3: (k=15) 3.0
4: (k=36) 2.0
5: (k=14) 7.0
6: (k=27) 0.0 [br]
7: (k=26) 4.0
8: (k=30) 0.0
9: (k=14) 5.0
10: (k=13) 5.0
11: (k=6) 10.0
12: (k=6) 5.0
Simple Sum: 45
K-Factored Sum: 624


Unknown 2 8-28-17
1: figure q (k=21) 8.5
2: 1/2 cuban (k=24) 9.0
3: hammer (k=25) 8.0
4: turn (k=6) 9.5
5: upline (k=22) 9.5
6: roll (k=12) 9.0
7: 45 line (k=16) 8.5
8: upline (k=22) 7.5
9: spin (k=13) 7.0
10: half octagon (k=10) 9.0
11: sound (k=6) 8.0
12: asc (k=6) 9.0
Simple Sum: 102.5
K-Factored Sum: 1,552.5

Edited by user Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:55:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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rclad on 3/14/2018(UTC), Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline rclad  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:58:22 PM(UTC)
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Awesome scores on that last Unknown, Joe! After the stick plane practice, I'm going to read a comic book before my Unknowns. BigGrin
Greg Hladky
Flying on a wing and a purpose...
and physics, power, practice, preparation, plans...
and pioneers who pushed the envelope!
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Allen Delger  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2018 2:03:41 PM(UTC)
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Thanks everyone for the excellent replies. It looks like a good first time approach would be :
1. Put some quality time in practicing reading and flying some of the available unknows before the first event.
2. Work through the first real unknown in a group to confirm we are reading it right, and take advantage of others perspective on it. .
3. Mark up the Aresti with what you want your caller to call.
4. Go over the Aresti with your caller and a stick plane.
5. Practice with a stick plane that evening and the next morning to get it pretty much memorized.
6. Relax and have fun when the real unknown time comes.
If that doesn't work, then I think we'll have to go back and adopt some of the other tips.

Thanks again, I hope I heard right what you all offered, and were looking forward to the first real test.

Allen
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rclad on 3/16/2018(UTC)
Offline Orthobird  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 7, 2018 12:44:54 PM(UTC)
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Good luck!

Edited by user Saturday, October 20, 2018 7:30:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Wish I could fly everyday!
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Vicente Bortone on 4/8/2018(UTC), Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline David J  
#21 Posted : Thursday, June 7, 2018 7:19:37 AM(UTC)
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Love this thread.

This may have been mentioned already, but throwing it out there again --

Most of the time, we have to fly a known after the unknown - so -----
Pull up your known and get yourself and mind back in tune with the routine. Just after you just "crammed" for the unknown, you do not want to find yourself confused on a similar maneuver coming from you unknown showing up in the sky with your known -- surprise!

All in preparation!

David
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Kevin  
#22 Posted : Friday, June 8, 2018 2:23:18 PM(UTC)
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Great Great advice so far.
Last year was my first year of unknowns. I have a very strange mind (those that know me, no comments please LOL). I tend to memorize things very quickly, in fact there was only one contest that my unknown scores were not higher than my known scores. I had to ask myself why, I practice knowns all the time. Here is what I came up with.

Knowns - I become complacent and just rush through it.
Unknowns - I take my time and make sure I know the next maneuver so I know how to set myself up during the current maneuver.
Knowns - I beat myself up during the sequence. For every little thing I did during the current maneuver. I distract myself for the next one.
Unknowns - I let the past be in the past and move on to the next maneuver.
Knowns - I think I know more than my caller. While beating myself up for something I did wrong I will loose track where I am and even argue with a caller that is right when I am wrong.
Unknowns - I slow down, listen to the caller and make sure it is what I remember it to be in the right sequence.

Finally, I am able to think about the whole flow of the sequence, not just directional maneuvers but ending a maneuver high or low should set me up for something new that will start high, low, end, or out, and then end high, low, end or out which will set me up for something that will start.... you get the picture. A loop cannot end high with the next maneuver being a split 'S'
at least for Sportsman BigGrin

It's a dance and should flow and be fun.

Hope that helps.

Kevin
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Jim7216  
#23 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2018 9:13:22 AM(UTC)
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I am looking for a source of Sportsman unknowns to practice. I know this site has 5 practice sequences. Is there another source where I can find unknowns?
Thanks,
Jim
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#24 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2018 9:42:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
I am looking for a source of Sportsman unknowns to practice. I know this site has 5 practice sequences. Is there another source where I can find unknowns?
Thanks,
Jim


PM or text me at 903-647-2640 with email address and I can send you years back worth of Unknowns. I save them all! No problem.
Doug Pilcher
South Central Regional Director
World's 2018 "Operations Manager"
Education Committee
douglas.pilcher@gmail.com - 903-647-2640
Would rather be flyin than workin!
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Terry Pellerin  
#25 Posted : Sunday, June 10, 2018 7:01:30 PM(UTC)
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Doug,
Is it possible to get the Intermediate 2018 unknowns already flown?
My e-mail is oh58skid@yahoo.com
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline rclad  
#26 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 1:29:32 PM(UTC)
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As a new Sportsman pilot this year, I found the challenge with Unknowns is overcoming muscle memory from similar figures in the Known sequence that you have practiced repeatedly. So it's easy to think once the Unknown is memorized and you have flown the stick plane with your caller that the flight will go smoothly. Not so! I realize now I have to identify those segments that are similar to the Known as potential trouble spots and make notes for the caller to emphasize the differences coming up.

For example, if the wind all day Saturday makes a left rudder hammerhead at the end of the box work best and then Sunday morning, with the wind in the same direction but the Unknown calling for a belly hammerhead in front of you, you still want the nose going left, but right rudder is required. This is just opposite of what your fingers will want to do! Another trouble spot is an interior line with the same roll element as the Known, but a different pull or push at the end of the line. Once again, muscle memory will take over from the Known sequence if you don't put a note for your caller to emphasize the different path at the end.

So, after memorizing the sequence, flying it with your stick plane and figuring out positioning for each figure in the box, fly it with your transmitter and retrain your fingers where similar figures require different stick inputs.

Unknowns take a lot of focus, and good listening skills. You have to trust your caller when your mind goes blank!
Greg Hladky
Flying on a wing and a purpose...
and physics, power, practice, preparation, plans...
and pioneers who pushed the envelope!
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Allen Delger on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Allen Delger  
#27 Posted : Monday, August 20, 2018 10:17:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rclad Go to Quoted Post
Joe, you are a funny guy! I'm going to remember this advice before I fly every Unknown this year, and the chuckle I'll get out of it will help me relax and fly the best Unknown ever. Thanks!!



I look forward to trying this with you and the other Sportsman pilots. Thanks for the tip.

What I would like to understand is what skill the Unknown is testing vs. a typical Known sequence. What makes the two so different? Why is an Unknown, especially one with an easier combination of figures or maneuvers than a typical Known, so much harder to fly?

I was watching a video of a flight I made this past Saturday. There was no one else at the field, so I just propped my phone up near the runway and took off. With the camera focused on one end of the field I was struck by how my figures on that end were very nearly in the exact same place every time, as if I was just following a groove I had made in the sky from flying the same sequence over and over and over. (About a 140 times now!)

We must pick up a number of cues from the landscape that tell us where each figure in a Known sequence should start and end, and that familiarity probably allows us to be more relaxed, as well as concentrate better on the details of the maneuver. The tip someone posted above about standing near where you will fly your Unknown and visualizing that sequence over the landscape you will fly sounds like a good one.

The closest analogy I can think of that describes the difference between flying a Known and Unknown - and hopefully someone with more experience can correct me - is the difference between a pianist who can play a piece well after much practice - developing muscle memory for each note - versus the pianist who can read music and play the same piece well on the first try. I have played the piano for years and still must study each piece and can only play it well with practice. I'm not a good sight reader with music, but the odd thing is I still can't play a piece I'm familiar with but haven't memorized without the notes in front of me. I hope this doesn't portend how bad I will be at flying Unknowns!



Greg, I wanted to thank you for this perspective on the unknowns. After working through several in contests, and with Danny Powell, I think your input in your final paragraph has finally really come into focus. Bottom line is:

You can't play a song very well if your tone deaf, and can't play the notes.

As for tone deaf, I am not sure I have learned well enough what a good maneuver is in a lot of cases, This is improving, with great feedback from Danny, Cam, and many others in the last couple months.

As for missing the notes, after some thought, I have concluded I need to go back to the basics. Stop flying the sequence so much, and spend more time learning how to play the notes. So I'm thinking about using about 1/2 of my practice time just working on the "scales"

Lines and shapes: up, down, sideways, and on 45s,
Loops; inside, outside, rolls on top, snaps on top,
Rolls: left, right, up, down, slow, fast, points, partials and coupled.
Snaps, alone, and before and after other elements.

So with that in mind, what input do others have on how they get through really getting the basics down?
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rclad on 9/20/2018(UTC)
Offline John Snider  
#28 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2018 12:48:25 PM(UTC)
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I thought this was a great topic because my routine with unknowns evolved over the years and my scores got better as I worked out what was best for me.

When starting in sportsman, I memorized the unknowns and my notes on the sheet were numerous with all the stuff I wanted my caller to tell me. I found that memorizing the unknown ultimately created more stress for myself, because instead of focusing on flying I was trying to recall and ultimately would forget something and then be stressed waiting on my caller or questioning what the caller called. Often the caller was confused and behind because I had put way to much information on the sheet.

After moving to Intermediate and on to advanced, I ended up with a system where I would fly it with a stick plane a couple of times to get the roll directions down and simply put an R or an L next to them on the call sheet. I would make a few mental notes about something that may be difficult, but that was it. I went out with a clear head and just listened to my caller and flew. The caller was way better off calling and able to keep up because he didn't have to decipher tons of notes on the call sheet. My stress level went way down and I flew much better.

One simple thing that I really like is call the direction first and then the rotations. My brain just processed the information quicker, I was able to prepare the direction then the roll. For example "Right, 1-1/4 roll" vs "1-1/4 roll right."
If the roll is called first I was immediately thinking which direction.

I have attached a known that is marked up just how I marked up my unknowns. Very Simple.

2014 Adv Known._1.jpg (207kb) downloaded 3 time(s).
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Earle Andrews on 9/20/2018(UTC), rclad on 9/20/2018(UTC), Allen Delger on 9/22/2018(UTC), Charles Lewis on 9/24/2018(UTC)
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